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RE: Beginning of the end for Generators as we know them?.....
"Several battery options-some use larger battery which can handle small loads and shut down engine for periods of time. Control set allows adjustment of these functions, remote control."
Ummmm .... I'm not EXACTLY sure what you mean by this. However, read the following portion of the operating explanation from the RV/marine fuel cell link I show aways above and see if it's related to what you are implying:
"Power supply is fully automatic due to the charge controller: whenever battery voltage drops below a certain level, the SFC A50 is activated and recharges the battery. A remote control unit is available as an accessory for easy operation from anywhere inside the vehicle."
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pnichols
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01/05/09 09:00pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Difference between E350 & E450 model year 2006 Winnebago
I don't know about model year 2006 .... so study the E350 versus E450 specs very carefully for 2006.
For 2005 (My E450 Itasca 324V is a non-slide 2005 chassis Class C), IMHO there are very significant guts differences between the two:
- 2005 E450 has rear and front factory torsion bars, E350 has them only on the front.
- 2005 E450 has a 4.5 inch wider rear stance than E350, for better lateral stability in winds, truck passing, and when cornering.
- 2005 E450 tranny takes about 5 more quarts of fluid than E350, for better tranny cooling and thus less BTU loading of the radiator which may also help with engine cooling.
- 2005 E450 has a larger brake swept area than the E350, it's obvious what this buys you.
- 2005 E450 uses a power steering type hydraulic system to boost the power brakes while the E350 uses the typical engine vacuum method, I don't know about the technical advantages of this but it sure "sounds like" a superior approach.
My wife has a bad back (... we had to get her the biggest Lexus sedan so she could take the ride for everyday use ...) and she DOES NOT complain about our 24 footer's E450 ride at all .... she says it rides fine, so don't spend $$ needlessly to "improve" anything. It rides "perfect" side to side, and up and down in the front where we are. The rear pounds up and down harsely on cracks in the road, however.
Winnebago used the 158 inch long Ford frame for their 2005 24 foot Class C's. I'll have to corner-weigh it sometime to see if the fully loaded front/rear weight ratio puts enough weight on the front. Winnie seems to have watched this carefully in our 24 footer, though, by counterbalancing the heavy rear items (FW/grey/black tanks, fuel tank, and spare tire) with the large propane tank, Onan generator, and double batteries being placed well towards the front for long lever-arm distances. I also carry a very heavy 3rd coach battery and full sized 110V air compressor in the most forward side compartment right behind the passenger so as to bias weight towards the front even more. To help with the rear end road crack pounding, we always try to travel with a full fuel fuel tank and fresh water tank, plus whatever might be in the grey and black tanks.
From reading extensively in these forums, it seems to me that most of the E350/E450 "ride/handling" complaints revolve around side to side swaying and tail wagging. This is probably happening with the long rear overhang Class C rigs .... and a 24 footer is NOT in this category. Winnie even sloped our coach's rear side walls continuously upwards starting directly from the rear duals back in our 2005, which helps a bit to improve parking lot dip and offroad approach angles. We appreciate this because we go offroad at times.
FWIW, we last summer went up and down a very steep no-guardrail road to/from a remote 8500 foot altitude CG in Nevada with our E450 in tow/haul mode all the way. The E450 didn't even "blink" up or down and I hardly needed the brakes at all going down because the tranny auto-downshifts with computer control of gearing based on downhill vehicle speed and loading. Our E450's temperature needle has NEVER moved in any situation, including running of the cab A/C full blast while sitting in scorching parking lots during summer shopping errands. I've owned three (Dodge/Ford/GMC) PU trucks in the past, along with a new Dodge 3/4 ton van in which I special ordered a heavy duty cooling system .... and NONE of them would do this when idling in summer temperatures! Ford about got it right with the E450 V10 chassis - finally. FWIW, I refused to buy any 24 footer Class C on the E350 chassis when we were shopping.
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pnichols
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01/05/09 08:27pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Beginning of the end for Generators as we know them?.....
"That English power-cell genset is too small, and after conversion to U.S. dollars near $4K."
One SFC A50 fuel cell RV unit produces about 100AH for each 24 hours of operation. They can be paralled for 200AH output each 24 hours of operation, which should meet many dry campers' needs.
Yes, they need to come down in price .... perhaps they will as this recession lingers on. In the meantime I'll not spend upwards of the $2K or more necessary for a solar system on my RV that will on certain days, during certain times of the year, in certain places produce those same 100AH of energy. Of course all the pop culture headlines are kindof promising that solar costs will "start coming down" soon .... heard that before. The region of $1 per watt maybe would change my mind over fuel cells. I do like getting the batteries topped up whenever I want/need, however.
What's REALLY needed is a quiet and efficient way to run the A/C whenever and as longever - maybe it'll take the Prius approach or nuclear in a suitcase to accomplish that, though.
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pnichols
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01/05/09 07:34pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Beginning of the end for Generators as we know them?.....
The gas mileage of new/newer "green/compact/etc." cars is somewhat of a big hogwash ripoff on the general public. i.e. My wife owns a beautiful like new 2002 Lexus LS430 sedan that we bought used at a real decent price with only ~32K miles on it ..... it has:
- 27 mpg gallon on the highway
- absurd over the top acceleration at any speed with it's 290 hp V8 that we never fully use except maybe when passing going steep uphill
- can't hear feel the V8 accept a little tiny bit under full acceleration
- 5 speed tranny you can barely feel shift
- in/out traction control with full lock up rear differential if needed
- in/out performance, or standard, tranny settings
- governor limited 132 mph top speed that would maybe be 155 mph ungoverned (who cares about this ... except to make a point)
- spectacular ride over rough roads
- out of this world trunk space
- all kinds of luxury features that continue to work day after day due to legendary Japanese reliability engineering
- hardly any road noise
Why on Earth would anyone want a Prius instead of, for instance, certain used Lexus models ... unless of course the Prius got WAY BETTER mileage than they currently get so the economic payback was within a mortal's lifetime??
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pnichols
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01/05/09 02:59pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Beginning of the end for Generators as we know them?.....
THIS is the "Beginning of the end for Generators as we know them?":
http://www.jmbadditions.com/newfuelcell.php
So quiet it can be run all night while everyone sleeps during quiet hours so as to do time-displacement RV battery charging. Also charges RV batteries in the rain, snow, clouds, shade, with no exhaust odor while using renewable resource based fuel.
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pnichols
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01/03/09 09:49pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Replacing battery with new AGM ?
Scott (the OP),
I see item 3. from part of the post I show below being stated A LOT regarding AGM deep cycle batteries suitable for an RV. Item 3 is brand-specific statement and is not true for all AGM 12V deep cycle batteries:
"1. Cost (a lot more)
2. Available power (you can always find more amp-hours in a similarly-sized flooded-cell battery).
3. Different charging requirements (see below).
4. Can handle a full discharge (flooded batteries should never be more than 80% discharged)."
I use a couple of Interstate versions of these DCS-100 AGM 12V deep cycle AGM batteries in my Class C RV - at 100 AH each for a total of 200 AH. I'm not sure Interstate carries their rebranded version of these any more, so the DCS-100 may now have to be bought in the C&D Technologies original OEM DCS-100IT model:
http://www.cdstandbypower.com/product/battery/vrla/dcs100it.html
It says right on the battery label for these to float them at 13.5V to 13.8V and to cycle service them at 14.4V to 14.8V. Cycle service merely means to use these voltages for faster charge times between uses. However, the common ~13.8V (Parallax) single stage RV converter/charger will not harm them except in one specific situation - when it's real hot and you leave them not used but hooked up to the 13.8V converter/charger day after day. There is no need to do this anyway, as they leak so little during unused storage that they hold a full charge for weeks/months without being on any float voltage at all.
My 13.8V Parallax RV converter/charger brings my two DCS-100 AGMs up very fast, with currents 30 to 40 amps dumping into them, so I see no need to spend unnecessary $$ for another charger.
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pnichols
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01/02/09 05:57pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: A new Winnie era?
On any new MH I look at the first specs I review are it's propane, freshwater, grey, and black tank capacities relative to 4-6 days on up of dry camping.
The ERA's propane tank capacity is good, at 16 gallons, for decent runs of cold weather dry camping. However, it's other tank capacities are too small to be of much use beyond, maybe, 3 days of extremely frugal dry camping.
I trust that's it's fully loaded diesel mileage averages more than twice that of my V10's ~10 mpg, because it's fuel tank capacity is less than one half the size. It's fuel tank capacity is especially important for dry camping, because if it's onboard generator is diesel (... as it should be for the best design), then you want plenty of diesel capacity for dry camp generator A/C running in case you run into extreme heat for a few days.
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pnichols
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01/01/09 09:50am |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Leveling a Class C
"I made up (5) sets of stepped 2x10 blocks that are glued and screwed together. The top piece is 11" long, the middle piece is 22" long, and the bottom piece is 33" long, and like Fred V., I beveled the leading edge of each at 45 degrees."
I did about what Ron did, above. I used redwood but the pressure treated green wood would probably be as good or better. I put a balance-point handle on the side of each one for ease in carrying. Five of these fit into one of our small exterior compartments, along with more pieces of loose plank pieces for the front edges of each step set just in case we ever have to go higher than 4 1/2 inches - like what I encountered at a beautiful boondock site once but had to pass up due to inadequate leveling blocks.
FWIW, you might want to be sure to have five step sets along in your rig, whether you buy or build. Some tipped/canted sites require lifting of both rear duals (one step set per tire for weight stress distribution) along with lifting of one front tire. (A friend we travel with only uses one step on each rear dual and does not bring along five steps. I keep kidding him about stressing his rear tire sidewalls and twisting his coach structure via his one-end-only side to side "leveling", but so far he just grins whenever I mention it.
We tried the plastic leveling steps for awhile, but they soon cracked on gravel or rocky boondock sites.
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pnichols
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12/29/08 08:08pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Economy postponing your FT RV retirement plans?
"PS: I would like to hear what bond are still paying 7%"
I'm right now looking into changing/adding some bond investments inside my diversified retirement portfolio and am trying to understand the monthly dividend rates that they are paying.
I suspect that no top rated investment grade bond raw coupon rates are anywhere near 7%. It might be that you can buy the bonds at such low discounted purchase prices right now that, if you divide their dividend payments by what you bought them for, you can in effect get a 7% return on your money.
If I'm right, then buying the right bonds right now could be an outstanding way to earn pretty good constant returns on invested money for retirees as long as you want to hold them - once you buy them you own them and the coupon payout rate continues year after year until maturity. One downside I guess would be that this constant payout does not go up with inflation on bonds you hold for years. I prefer bond mutual funds instead of individual bonds, as I think (not sure) that a bond mutual fund might kindof result in "adjustment" of it's payout dividends upwards per original amount invested if/when future inflation sets in.
I'm far from being a bond expert, so someone please feel free to clarify all this if I'm off a bit on what's going on with bond and bond investing.
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pnichols
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12/27/08 12:42pm |
General RVing Issues
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RE: Black and Grey Tank Heating Pads
Wayne,
Thanks for your link and info. I have all this info on the heaters that came in the bag of literature that Winnie supplies with all their new rigs.
I still can't understand why they aren't heating up in below-40 deg outside temps. I tried again this morning by leaving them on for about 20 minutes and feeling with my hand - nothing - the pad surface feels the same temperature as before I turned them on. However I've always done my tests with the tanks empty so I wonder if with only air in the tanks that the heat from under the floor of the rig isn't in fact just enough so as to prevent the plastic surfaces of the tanks from cooling enough to kick on the pad thermostats?
I'll probably have to verify voltage again at the pads and maybe call the company to understand if I'm missing something in how they should work in only moderately sub-40 deg conditions with no liquid in the tanks. Of course I guess it's possible that I have two bad 12V heating pads at the same time.
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pnichols
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12/26/08 08:56pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Black and Grey Tank Heating Pads
"Mine work on 12v only and I do notice a voltage drop and momentary light flicker when they come on."
Do they cycle on and off all the while that the weather is cold or do they stay on continuously until the outside temperatures rises?
Do you have any idea how much amperage they are using when they are on?
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pnichols
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12/25/08 11:38pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Going to buy a 2006 24V, but found a brand new water leak...
FWIW, from reading about Winnie's construction methods, I doubt that a 2006 Outlook has much wood inside it's walls to rot. Maybe some places for mold to grow, but wood content may really be at a minimum, if any.
I sure hope that's the case for my 2005 Itasca Class C, too. IMHO wood has no place in the walls of a motorhome. In fact I would even like more (strong) synthetics and metals in it's cabinetry/Etc. construction, too.
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pnichols
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12/24/08 04:15pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Mother Nature Slapped Some Sense Into Me
"Thank you for proving your ignorance. "Mud & Snow" tires are good at neither."
Here's my modest resume': I've owned a 3/4 ton Dodge camper van for years, 1/2 and 3/4 2WD PU's for years, currently have a 4X4 PU with several offroad and handling modifications, have owned a 1 ton chassis mount self-powered Chinook MH for years, and currently have a self-powered Class C MH on the one and a half ton E450 chassis. I knew/know each of their capabilities and limits. Oh yeah, ... and I have in the past lived in Michigan year around for about twenty years.
I'll let the above be the last of my participation in a mine's bigger than your's discussion.
Aren't you reading the posts by others above or only mine? I believe from what others have said that it's the earlier GMC ABS that is the main culprit for my unloaded rear bed 4X4 PU problems in extreme slippery conditions. Also note what others are saying about over-confidence or otherwise 4X4 PU stories in the snow and ice.
Other than that, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you!
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pnichols
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12/24/08 12:34am |
Truck Campers
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RE: Going to buy a 2006 24V, but found a brand new water leak...
My 2005 Itasca 324V probably has the same one piece fiberglass roof and one piece fiberglass cap over the front cabover edge as the 2006 Outlook 324V does. These two construction techniques one reason we bought ours.
I agree with SKIRMISH ... it's most likely not a roof leak but something else.
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pnichols
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12/23/08 08:50pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Black and Grey Tank Heating Pads
"They work on 12 volts only whether hooked up to 120v or not."
That's what I have according to their spec sheet and what I prefer just in case of expected cold snaps when boondocking. I shouldn't have to crawl under the rig in the cold and feel of them ... just watching the current draw from the batteries should indicate if they are working ... I think, but so far I haven't seen them draw current from the house batteries. I've waited up to 15 minutes in 33 degree temperatures and still no current draw. I can't believe two pads are bad at the same time ... possible but improbable.
Regarding: "The tanks were not frozen but the drain valves were." I'm curious as to how valves can freeze when up against one side of them is non-frozen liquid from the tanks ... or are your valves quite a ways from the non-frozen tanks such that a small volume of water in the pipe between the valve and the tank can freeze separate from the liquid in the tanks? My two drain valves are right at the tanks, so hopefully they would not freeze if the tanks aren't frozen.
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pnichols
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12/23/08 08:36pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Mother Nature Slapped Some Sense Into Me
Putting weight in the back of course "works".
However, I consider it as basically a "kluge" to have to do this. You add weight over the rear wheels for better traction while at the same time adding to overall weight that in fact increases the need for more traction ... plus with the added overall weight, stopping distance and slidouts on corners is increased.
My father used to tell me that pickup trucks were built "backwards": Two wheel drive PU's should have drive on the front wheels where the weight is. Four wheel drive PU's should have drive on the front wheels where the weight is when in 2WD, and then add drive to the rear wheels when you switch them into 4WD.
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pnichols
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12/23/08 01:43pm |
Truck Campers
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Black and Grey Tank Heating Pads
I have these on my Itasca Class C, but am not sure they are working. I had them (partially) checked by the dealer and we found out that when the interior switch was on, 12 volts was indeed at the pads' connectors. The check was not complete because the temperature was above their built-in 40 degree kickin temperature.
This winter of course it has been down to the low 30's a lot outside our MH. I keep the interior at 40 degrees or higher all the time.
I have checked inside the MH a couple of times now with the low outside temperatures by putting the coach on it's batteries only, so I can watch the battery bank's ammeter. When I switch on the tank heater switch the green light comes on and I assume 12 volts is now at the heating pad connectors. However, the ammeter for the coach batteries doesn't move, nor does the house battery bank's voltage come down any more than necessary to power the green light.
Shouldn't the ammeter immediately begin to increase to show 15-20 amps current flow with the outside temperature for many hours at say, 33 degrees .... indicating that both heating pads are warming up? (...or are my empty tanks getting heated enough by the interior rig's temperature enough such that the heating pads' kickin temperature still isn't being reached even though outside temps are plenty low enough)
I know you shouldn't operate the pads with the tanks empty, but I'm just trying to momentarily confirm that the pads are in fact good and operable if I should ever need them for cold weather camping.
Any of you folks have experience with these tank heating pads? How can I confirm that I have good pads, so I don't get surprised on a trip?
Thanks much for any advice.
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pnichols
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12/23/08 01:22pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Mother Nature Slapped Some Sense Into Me
"Really? Well I don't know how I'm going to break the news to my GMC with 6 Bridgestone Blizzaks on it! I mean, last I checked it got me anywhere in Anchorage in any conditions, but maybe you're right, I should make sure I'm not fooling myself.
OK, I'm going to make this one point: Yes, 4WD/AWD are great assets, but by far the most important feature of any vehicle in the snow is tires. A Toyota Prius with a set of Blizzaks or Michelin X-Ices will be a better snow vehicle than a 4x4 Yukon with "Dubz" on it. I don't want to re-hash this subject since I've covered it in other threads, but I also couldn't let this one go by once I read it ..."
I have, and always have had, the best mud & snow tires money can buy on my 4X4 GMC PU (....all year long - not just in the winter because I offroad in the summer). Tires had nothing to do with my PU's being dangerous in the snow - it was partially because of it's light rear end weight relative to it's heavily front-loaded overall weight - like all pickups. I've also had plenty of experience with a couple of 2WD drive PU's in the snow and sleet - which are both dangerous and go nowhere in a forward direction under those conditions. All PU rear ends slur out VERY EASILY on slippery surfaces and their rear braking becomes just about useless on slippery surfaces. A 4X4 of course goes forward better (than 2WD) in snow and sleet because of it's weight on the front drive wheels.
The main problem with my 4X4 GMC in the snow and sleet I'm pretty sure is GM's 1995 ABS system.
FWIW, I have ridden in a 4X4 PU going uphill into the mountains hunting when the snow was so deep it was plowing up OVER THE HOOD. All four corners chained was what made this possible - pretty much unstoppable. Your PU tire treads have to get down to, and into, the solid stuff underneath. This takes high weight to contact area ratios to achieve. Chains of course do this to the extreme.
A heavy Class C will achieve somewhat decent weight to contact area ratios on it's rear dullies because of it's raw weight.
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pnichols
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12/23/08 11:34am |
Truck Campers
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RE: Mother Nature Slapped Some Sense Into Me
"I will have to say this, 4wd isn't necessary until the rear tires won't move you anymore. I had this same conversation with my girlfriend yesterday as we drove around in her Explorer, I didn't need 4wd at all in the snow and ice that wasn't plowed off the backroads and parking lots out here. Biggest thing is that traction comes from the tire making contact with something solid. If you compress snow enough, it becomes a solid surface that can maintain traction if you don't spin the tires and take it easy. As for the ABS, I have it on my truck, and I pulled the fuse on it after I slid through 2 intersections this past friday with just wet pavement, no snow or slush. ABS is designed to prevent the brakes from locking up and causing a skid situation, in theory allowing you to maintain control instead of skidding. After almost having the side of my truck bashed in on the second time the ABS kicked in, I decided that I'll go back to having the tires lock up and stop the vehicle rather than have the brakes release and try to stop me again in the snow and slush especially when driving downhill towards an intersection at 10 MPH."
What you describe is EXACTLY what I experienced with my unloaded rear bed 4X4 PU in the snow and slush. I never thought of turning off the ABS ... at first it seems counter-intuitive that the ABS doesn't keep the wheels from locking on any surface. Does "modern" ABS on late model 4X4 trucks handle ice and snow better? (My GMC is a 1995 Z71 4X4 and it's ABS definitely seems to operate more "coarsely/harshly" than on my wife's 2002 sedan.)
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pnichols
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12/23/08 12:59am |
Truck Campers
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RE: Mother Nature Slapped Some Sense Into Me
"The winter of 08 will be one to remember in the Northwest.
Haven't had my truck out of four wheel drive in 4 or 5 days.
I had just about decided to buy a Gas powered two wheel drive motor home. Had I done that provisions would be running short at the old homestead.
My lovely heavy diesel 4X4 has gone everywhere it has been pointed.
Even without anything but snow in the bed.
Forget about talking me out of going over to the darkside with a motorhome.
TRUCKS WITH FOUR WHEEL DRIVE ROCK! Slide in campers for them ROCK as well. Even that heavy "expensive fuel" enigne is my friend these days."
DG
I took my rugged 4X4 GMC PU to my sister's place in the snow and sleet once. Couldn't do anything with it in the snow and ice. Very dangerous. Had to use the ABS brakes a long way ahead of every stop sign and still slid right through many of them ..... even on completely level streets and roads.
The main problem was weight. A 4X4 PU is NOT heavy enough to get anything but marginally more traction in snow/ice/sleet and give you a false sense of dangerous confidence.
A 2X2 Class C motorhome with it's heavy rear end WOULD move better in snow and sleet and stop slightly faster, too. It would be nasty, though, just like a 4X4 PU would be, in a sliding out-of-control turn on snow, sleet, and ice. A 2X2 Class C MH with chains or snow tires on the rear dullies would go just about anywhere on a legitimate levels roads because of it's raw weight.
BTW, I still have the GMC 4X4 along with our Class C MH, but use the PU only for offroad backcountry non-camping volunteer work and fishing in the summer. In the summer a 4X4 PU can be spectacular - but not in the winter unless you have it chained up on all tires ... which is a situation in which all vehicles do better/well/OK in the winter.
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pnichols
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12/22/08 09:15pm |
Truck Campers
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